Abortion is Wrong

topic posted Thu, January 29, 2009 - 1:56 PM by  offlineDan
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Ok, We have said it. We can all go home now.
posted by:
Dan
online Dan
Indiana
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  • Re: Abortion is Wrong

    Thu, January 29, 2009 - 2:06 PM
    If you are against abortion then don't have one. America is a pro choice secular nation. Last November all of the anti-choice meassures on state ballots lost and choice upheld by voters. We elected a pro choice President and Congess. Any new Supreme Court appointees will be pro choice for the next four to eight years. I am still celebrating the end of the world wide gag rule. I look foreward to Obama releasing federal funds for stem cell research. If I were on the anti choice side I would concentrate on encouraging free access to birth control in order to reduce the number of abortions because free choice will be the law of the land for at least another generation or longer.
    • Dan
      Dan
      online 8

      Re: Abortion is Wrong

      Thu, January 29, 2009 - 6:50 PM
      "America is a pro choice secular nation."

      This is not factual. No founding document anywhere states that the U.S. was set up as any "secular nation". America is roughly split on the abortion issue and O'Bama was elected despite the issue, not because of it. Regardless, this has nothing to do with the morality of the issue. Abortion is wrong.
      • Re: Abortion is Wrong

        Thu, January 29, 2009 - 7:13 PM
        The founding fathers were very clear about their secular vision www.infidels.org/library/mod...ll/myth.html

        The fact is most of us live our lives as if it were a secular society. Free citizens can reject Biblical teachings as freely as we reject the Koran and with zero legal consequence. The votes last fall were a pretty clear indication that the public continues to support the basic outline of Roe v. Wade. Majorities even backed the right of minors to get an abortion without parental notification.

        As to the morality of abortion that decision is up to the pregnant woman and nobody else. Like it or not a woman's body belongs to her 24 hours a day, seven days a week and 365 day a year including in marriage.
        • Dan
          Dan
          online 8

          Re: Abortion is Wrong

          Thu, January 29, 2009 - 7:57 PM
          oh, goodness, I am sure I will get an unbiased view from "infidels.org". Who are you kidding? American is a nation founded by Christians as a non sectarian generic Christian Nation. It was not a theocracy, nor was it secular. The government instituted prayer, hung the 10 commandments in the supreme court, filled DC with scripture on all of its buildings. It has been declared a Christian nation by presidents and supreme court Justices. Don't even think about throwing out the stupid Treaty of Tripoli as you next case in point....

          Of course free people can reject biblical teachings, this is a teaching of the Bible itself! Christianity must be embraced, it cannot be coerced! But this doesn't stop us from inacting laws such as "Thou shalt not Murder" and "Thou shalt not steal".

          Morality is never up to an individual. Morality is transcendant. A woman no more has a moral right to take the life of her unborn baby than she does to destroy the life her born child. No law can change this. A baby is not part of her body, it is a separate, respiring, living, digesting, thinking, feeling, individual.
          • Re: Abortion is Wrong

            Thu, January 29, 2009 - 8:13 PM
            You are of course free to believe that abortion is wrong and that women are wrong to seek them. You will however not control the fact that women contine to excerise their right to choose.

            I do not care how many Presidents or Supreme Court justices proclaim the nation Christian. America belongs equally to Christian Muslims. Jews, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics and believers in the Flying Spaghetti Monster (my you be touched by his noodly appendage)

            Yes morality is up to the individual. Christians are powerless to stop abortion. They are powerless to prevent gay and lesbian citizens from obtaining every single right enjoyed by others. Also remember that Christians do not speak with one voice on any social issue. There are many clergy and church going Christians who support abortion rights as well a gay marriage.

            Separation of church and state protects religious people and at the same time it protects my right to be free from religion. To quote pro choice marchers "keep your Bible off of my body"

            You may not like internet infidels, but the historical facts speak for themselves. The founding fathers were more fanatical supporters of church state separation than the ACLU is today
            • Dan
              Dan
              online 8

              Re: Abortion is Wrong

              Fri, January 30, 2009 - 9:59 AM
              I cannot keep a person from stealing or lieing either, but I can say it is wrong and work to enact laws which agree with my view of morality.

              I never stated that this nation doesn't include Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc.. It is because of Christian tolerance that it does. You can expect no such tolerance toward Christians in Hindu portions of India, Atheist China, or Muslim nations like Egypt. It is the conviction that this is a Christian nation which has led to the freedom you and I enjoy. But that freedom involves a respect for life, not the destruction of it.

              Christians are not powerless. We are part of "we the people" of this great country. But our power, like yours, is limited to our ability to influence others. And yes, Christiandom is not united, but bible believing evangelical Christianity largely is. And they still represent a powerful coalition in America. Everyone knows this, which is why no openly atheist believer would run successfully as president.

              I am not interested in your body. I am interested in my neighbor, the unborn child. It would be wrong to stand by and watch your neighbors life snuffed out when you have in your power to do something about it.

              Our founders, save one, never mentioned the term "separation of church and state". The phrase is no where in our constitution and the person who penned it had no concept of it like is being used today. Jefferson was not a signator to our constitution and those who did sign were largely bible believing Christians not greatly different from me.
              • Re: Abortion is Wrong

                Thu, May 28, 2009 - 12:02 PM
                Wow! You amaze me. Our society is secular and will be forever. Organized religion mostly will try to impose their view of morality to others. This is wrong. You cannot in no way tell others what is right and wrong. Good for you if you found your notion of morality in the Bible. But we all know that morality is something that transcends the notion of "God". It is something inherently human, to think, to decide, to be free to live how we want. To make choices how we see fit. Thank God I live in Canada. We are far more liberal than you Americans (at least the stubborn conservative it's-my-opinion-that's-always-right-and-I-must-impose-on-everyone mentality). That is so cultural and ethnocentric it's amazing. If you think abortion is wrong, I respect that, (see i'm not IMPOSING my view on your opinions). Just don't get an abortion. But let us free people make our own choices based on our own notion of "morality". Stop trying to have "THE" universal morality. You'll always fail, and peoples hearts are all different. So stop harassing us with your Bible non-sense please. Thanks.
                • Dan
                  Dan
                  online 8

                  Re: Abortion is Wrong

                  Thu, May 28, 2009 - 6:56 PM
                  "Wow! You amaze me. Our society is secular and will be forever."

                  what is amazing Eric is the extent of your ignorance. Name one founder who stated that this is a "secular nation". You will not name one because none exist! This is without question a Christian Nation in the sense that:

                  1). It was founded largely by Protestant Christians
                  2). Its peoples where and are predominately Christian
                  3). Its institutions are based upon Christian principles

                  It is not a Christian State, nor is it a Christian theocracy. It is a generic Christian Nation. The establishment clause was written partially to protect Christianity from Governmental intrusions and from specific denominations rising to a Church State like other European nations before. Numerous officials have acknowledged these simple facts, but perhaps being educated in the public schools left you sadly deficient in American History.

                  "Organized religion mostly will try to impose their view of morality to others. This is wrong."

                  says who? And upon what basis? And why should your "morality" predominate over the majority of Americans?

                  "You cannot in no way tell others what is right and wrong."

                  I can do what ever I please as long as I don't break the law. What I cannot do is force someone like yourself to accept the truth. All laws are based upon someones morality. Our country was founded upon Christianity. If you don't like that fact, you do not get to rewrite history.

                  "But we all know that morality is something that transcends the notion of "God"."

                  You do not know anything of the sort! Morality doesn't exist without a transcendant God because universal unalienable rights demand a Creator. Without God, all morality is merely the whim of imperfect man and subject to "might makes right".

                  "Thank God I live in Canada."

                  I do thank God you live in Canada. And I wish all atheists and secularists would move up there with you. You can have Canada and your secularism, your universal crappy healthcare. I am very content to live in the Greatest Nation on earth, thank you.

                  "We are far more liberal than you Americans (at least the stubborn conservative it's-my-opinion-that's-always-right-and-I-must-impose-on-everyone mentality). That is so cultural and ethnocentric it's amazing."

                  Ethnocentrism is actually a good thing, and you have just demonstrated that you are ethnocentric and you don't even realize it. Amazing!

                  "If you think abortion is wrong, I respect that, (see i'm not IMPOSING my view on your opinions)."

                  Why do you respect that? What if my view is that liberal Canadians should all be killed? Would you respect that also? Why not, you respect all views don't you? You see Eric, you cannot be consistant and be a liberal with no objective basis for morality.

                  "Just don't get an abortion."

                  This is analagous to saying, "just don't own slaves if you are against slavery". It isn't enough to be against evil, you must oppose it. Wake up Eric, you have been brainwashed.

                  "But let us free people make our own choices based on our own notion of "morality". Stop trying to have "THE" universal morality. You'll always fail, and peoples hearts are all different. So stop harassing us with your Bible non-sense please. Thanks."

                  Your morality is imorality.

                  "There are those who believe that a new modernity demands a new morality. What they fail to consider is the harsh reality that there is no such thing as a new morality. There is only one morality. All else is immorality."
                  --- President Theodore Roosevelt
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Abortion is Wrong

                    Thu, June 11, 2009 - 10:05 AM
                    Dan,

                    The U.S. was not founded by protestant christians, it was founded primarily by deists!!!! Stop making shit up and read a fucking book sometime.
              • Re: Abortion is Wrong

                Thu, June 11, 2009 - 10:11 AM
                "Jefferson was not a signator to our constitution and those who did sign were largely bible believing Christians not greatly different from me."

                Dan,

                You couldn't be more conceited could you??? To say that the people that signed the Constitution are not greatly different than you is really too much to comprehend. And to minimize the impact of Jefferson in crafting the ideals of this country show how out of touch you are.

                You're really delusional.
          • Re: Abortion is Wrong

            Thu, June 11, 2009 - 10:03 AM
            "American is a nation founded by Christians "

            Dan,

            This is a bullshit lie. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Paine, James Madison, John Adams and George Washington were among the many Deists that fought for and founded the United States. Plus, many of the philosophers who's writings influenced the American ideals were Deists, including John Locke, Voltaire, and Rousseau.

            Do you even care that your comments are shit??